Have just watched the movie ¨the secret¨ - absolutely not what I was expecting [silly me was expecting an ACTUAL movie...]. However, it got me thinking. I remember a parable about a mustard seed - and that that is all the faith we need to move mountains. Basically the same principle as ¨the secret¨, except not much of a secret haha. Any thoughts on unwavering faith - and positivity? Optimism really. Is absolute faith and belief linked to optimism?

(17-06-2009 12:41 AM)Catherine Scott Wrote:  Have just watched the movie ¨the secret¨ - ...... Any thoughts on unwavering faith - and positivity? Optimism really. Is absolute faith and belief linked to optimism?

HI, Catherine.

Absolute faith is not linked to optimism. It's linked to hope and love, because only these three things remain, and the greatest of these is love.

I haven't read The Secret, so I can't speak with any certainty about its contents. However, please be careful about taking New Age literature to heart. The danger with this type of book / movie is that it contains some truth and one only realises a good way into the book or movie that what is being said conflicts with the Christian faith. For instance.... the Law of Attraction. Of course positive thinking is a good thing and influences outcomes in your life, but bad things do happen to good people, and they haven't attracted tragedy or hardship by their thoughts. We do not have, and can never have total control of our lives. Every breath we take is at the mercy of God. He has a good pleasing and perfect plan for each of our lives, and will take us back to Himself when he chooses to, so how much control do we really have, no matter what we think or do?

Thanks for your post. I am looking forward to seeing what others say about The Secret and how they answer your question!

Hi Anne

Thanks! Yes, the ¨secret¨ and law of attraction are one in the same [from what I gathered]. Hope, Love, and Faith to me seem more real than the theory presented here - but perhaps cos I have been taught these my whole life. I liked the idea behind it, but, am not sure that something so vast and wild can be believed. What I did like about it was the need for optimism. One HAS to be optimistic for things to ¨fall into your lap¨. And if one is to look at how an optimist views life - then they do not focus on the bad things the way a pessimist would, and therefor, things to seem just that much better . I like the basis of optimism....perhaps because things in the world right now are not looking so rosy, many people will look to this new ¨theory¨ for hope. I will, however, be taking from it, the need for increased optimism in my life [combined with my faith] - and continue on my current path.
Thanks for your answer... given me lots to think about !

Hi Catherine and Anne,

Interesting topic! Perhaps a distinction needs to be made between the concept of 'optimism' and the Christian theological concept of 'hope'. They are not the same. I suppose as you alluded to, Catherine, you could say that optimism in the context of faith or a faith -infused optimism could be described as hope. But I would submit that the difference between the 2 is much deeper. Our Christian faith not only means that we are a hopeful people, it is why we are a hopeful people. Is optimism not always directed at something? In the sense that it looks to the future and in the context of our discussion, hopes to attract something good/ beautiful or whatever? In itself that is not bad, but I think it misses the fundamental point of Christianity which although oriented towards final union with God, is rooted very firmly in the present reality of our relationship with Him. Meister Eckhart said: If you seek anything for yourself, you will never find God, for you are not simply seeking God, you are seeking for something with God. You are as it were, making a candle of God with which to find something. So I would argue that it is not inconsistent to be a pessimist in a sense and still be one who is hope-filled. Apart from this, there are a number of issues that The Secret and similar do that I find distasteful as a Christian: surrounding yourself with positive people etc. It certainly isn't consistent with the way Christ hung out with 'losers' . But am looking forward to a robust discussion - you have raised a very interesting and important topic - thank for that.
Cheers!
Rodney

Wow - yet more to consider [thrilled I brought it up - having other peoples views really DOES help one to see things from many angles!]
A LOT of thinking to be done again hehe Thanks

The issue that I find the most hair-raising in New Age material is "The Universe". That term is used wherever we would say "God". Here is an extract from "Jesus Christ the Bearer of the Water of Life". from the resource library on the Vatican Website:
"In what might be termed a classical New Age account, people are born with a divine spark, in a sense which is reminiscent of ancient gnosticism; this links them into the unity of the Whole. So they are seen as essentially divine, although they participate in this cosmic divinity at different levels of consciousness. We are co- creators, and we create our own reality. Many New Age authors maintain that we choose the circumstances of our lives (even our own illness and health), in a vision where every individual is considered the creative source of the universe. But we need to make a journey in order fully to understand where we fit into the unity of the cosmos. The journey is psychotherapy, and the recognition of universal consciousness is salvation. There is no sin; there is only imperfect knowledge. The identity of every human being is diluted in the universal being and in the process of successive incarnations. People are subject to the determining influences of the stars, but can be opened to the divinity which lives within them, in their continual search (by means of appropriate techniques) for an ever greater harmony between the self and divine cosmic energy. There is no need for Revelation or Salvation which would come to people from outside themselves, but simply a need to experience the salvation hidden within themselves (self-salvation), by mastering psycho- physical techniques which lead to definitive enlightenment."

We should remember how Satan tempted Eve: "You shall not surely die. Your eyes shall be opened, and you will be like God." (Genesis 3:4,5).

At core, all sin is an attempt to usurp God's authority. So what does that make the New Age?

Amen, Anne. I think it partly explins why psychotherapists tend to overstep their expertise in the area of Spirituality and frankly tend to make a hash of it. I know that perhpas that is a generalisation, but your quote succintly describes the practical reason for this. And why orthodoxy is so difficult when you have 2 conflicting ideologies: Catholicism / Christianity and whatever brand of psychotherapy you happen to subscribe to. Excellent point you make.

(19-06-2009 01:47 PM)rodney Wrote:  2 conflicting ideologies: Catholicism / Christianity and whatever brand of psychotherapy you happen to subscribe to. Excellent point you make.

Oh! Shows how differently we think. I almost excluded the part about psychotherapy, because I thought it was irrelevant. So the "excellent point" was an accident. What's significant for me in the quote is the "God is all; all is God" part, and the "creating your own reality", which ties into the not so secret Secret, that prompted this thread. And looks like we have hi-jacked the thread, Sorry, Catherine!.

Oops ok. But agree still vast difference between "God is all; all is God" and 'in Him we live and move and have our being'. Not just huge but antithetical: Theism and Pantheism. Apologies too Catherine. My bad. :-)